Is Vladimir Guerrero Jr. catching up to Shohei Ohtani for MVP? | Around the Horn

Objavljeno 14. sep. 2021
Is Vladimir Guerrero Jr. catching up to Shohei Ohtani for MVP? | Around the Horn
The Around The Horn crew debates whether Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is catching up to Shohei Ohtani for MVP after hitting his 45th home run of the season.


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Komentarjev

  • Vladi mvp

  • Give it to Vladimiro!

  • These personal awards that aren’t just based on personal numbers, eg batting avg leader, home run leader, era leader are basically meaningless. MVP should only be an award given out in World Series or playoffs

    • They have different award for the playoff and World Series....

  • How tf did Miguel not deserve it?!!! He had better numbers than trout and was on a playoff off team. Stupid claim by Jones

  • The reason why it'd be weird for a triple crown to not receive the MVP would be because Ohtani transcended normal boundaries. You cannot quantify the impact this man has had based on old stats because he's done something no one else has. Simple

  • It has to be Shohei. The value of a starting pitcher is so much higher than a position player in any game they play in, but they obviously don't play in many games. Ohtani is playing those games and closing in a 50 HR season, while being 9-2 on the mound. Vlad is having a rare season, but Shohei is having a never seen before one.

  • Really ... people start watching baseball again because of one player on a bad team? Watch any good team, you will appreciate the game more. They must only watch one or two games and check out again.

  • I'll just say this: IF Ohtani doesn't win MVP it'll be a MAJOR casae of bias

  • NOPE

  • MVP= Ohtani because he is the most valuable player to the MLB right now. He is bringing in non baseball fans to follow the games or former fans back.

  • 147th comment

  • Vald Jr is 22 and lead the MLB in every batting stat... it's going to be hard if he hits 55 homeruns

  • He needs to end up w at least 10 more HR than Shohie to take the mvp from him.

  • Just because you like what Ohtani is doing doesn’t mean he deserves an award for it. Being the best pitcher on a non-playoff team and hitting home runs is not better being the best batter in the entire league and leading your team to the playoffs. V is for valuable. Most Valuable to your team in relation to how your team finishes the regular season against other teams in the league. If Vlad wins the major league triple crown and his team makes the playoff, he is without a doubt the mvp. Should we give Bryan Reynolds an award for being the best Pirate? Ohtani isn’t in the top 10 overall in any pitching category. He’s number 2 in home runs. He’s 8th in steals. He doesn’t lead the league in anything. In batting Vlad leads Ohtani in Avg which is almost .60 better, Hits, HRs, RBIs, OPS, OBP, SLG, Total Bases, Walks, Struckout out 70 times less than Ohtani. The difference in average alone means Vlad will get a hit for his team that Ohtani will not once every about two games. So about half the season you are getting an extra base hit out of Vlad. Also Ohtanis team has no shot at playoffs. Vlad leads the league in runs, hits, home runs, and total bases. Vlad is also in the top 5 in league in Avg, RBIs, Walks, OPS, SLG, OBP, and WAR amongst batters. What single category is Ohtani better than anyone in the league at? That’s right, none. The only metric you can go by that says Ohtani is better than everyone is total WAR. And all total WAR really shows is that it’s not an accurate metric if every other single stat category that aren’t predicted and are actual stats says differently. Ohtani is having a great year, but Vlad is having an elite MVP year. You can get a top 20 pitcher and a Pete Alsono to replace what Ohtani did this year. The only thing that Ohtani brings value in where Vlad doesn’t is he saves you a roster spot by doing two jobs. But teams are allotted enough roster slots to not need a two-way player. So this in actuality saving a roster spot isn’t that valuable at all. You would need Miguel Cabrera from the year 2012 to replace what Vlad did. Or call up Yastrzemski from 67 or Robinson 66. If you want Ohtani it’s because of your emotions, period. If you want Vlad it’s because you understand what the MVP award actually is meant for.

  • Dumb debate. It's Ohtani. It's always been Ohtani. Sports media gets bored with even the most spectacular players if they make it look easy. Most valuable player means what it says. MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. There is no one within earshot of Ohtanis value to a team right now, period. Just because his team isn't as good doesn't mean you give it to someone less deserving on a better squad.

    • Means u help your team to qualify because in the of the day that's why team play for. To go to the playoffs. That's u MVP Means.

    • Ohtani leads in zero major categories. MVP awards should be held to higher standards than that. Guerrero leads in nearly every one

  • Baseball is in such great shape look at all these young players under 24 and then showtime

  • Shohei is bating .254 Nuff said. Vladdy literally is LEADING THE MLB IN EVERY SINGLE HITTING STATISTIC!!!!! AND HES 22!!!!!!! How old is Otani?????? Do you realize this is THE BEST HITING SEASON OF ALL TIME for a 22 or younger. Nuff said.

    • @George Rand Ohtani isn't pitching at an elite level though

    • As if pitching at an elite level while doing what Ohtani has done means nothing. You're a walking comedy.

  • I only started watching baseball this year for the first time in my life (thanks to Ohtani) and honetly I do not understand why the MVP talks always involve the rest of team... Is it not an individual award?

    • @Craig Nasen That is what I don't really understand, why baseball awards an individual based on overall team performance. Maybe I need to read a bit more to understand the historical background of it, but as a newcomer and young person it just seems weird to me. Thanks anyway.

    • It is an individual award but isn’t just about individual statistics. To be the most valuable player to your team means (historically) you lead a team to victory

    • It’s an individual award based on the “V” in MVP - Value you bring to your team in relation to how your team finished the regular season. This award is given to an individual but is all about the team. Vlad’s value is him tearing up this year and leading batters or top 5 in almost every single meaningful batting stat and is directly putting the Jays in the playoff race which is far more important than any of his stats. Ohtani was like the 20th best pitcher and the 50th best batter, leading no stat categories, and his team not being in the playoff race at all. How anyone can make a case for Ohtani as MVP without an appeal to emotions is beyond me. This shouldn’t even be close, Vlad should win every vote.

  • I think conclusion is, if Shohei wants to be undisputed, he needs to take back the lead in HRs

  • Haven’t watched baseball in 15 years, came back becuz of ohtani

  • Vlad jr He's going for a triple Crown But not just that He's going for a record hold for more than 60 years, Youngest home run league leaders in MLB history

  • GUERRERO IS THE MVP TRIPLE CROWN 👑 AND HIS TEAM IS GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS

  • Does Vlad Jr. pitch or steal bases? Mmmm? You got your answer!

    • @Henry Valerio How is the playoff contender a part of this? It's most valuable PLAYER not group of players. One player cant bring a team to the playoffs, look at trout for the last decade.

    • What about average, runs, hit, ops, RBI, and playoff contender

  • Guerrero jr leads ohtani in every category they compete in avg, hits, homeruns, ops, rbi,. Cant use pitching cause guerrero doesnt pitch. And leads his team to a possible playoffs. Guerrero hands down is the mvp. And is younger!!

  • M a s k o f f w e b made me happy

  • M a s k o f f w e b. made me happy

  • Yates is so stupid oreo

  • If the best player is the best pitcher and hitter on the team, com on.

  • I’m sure they will give it to Vladimir just because he’s a African-American athlete. Ya’ know, this whole BLM propaganda .. It doesn’t matter how better Ohtani is, he won’t get the reward because he’s Asian. The politics of it all is disgusting.

    • You are wrong

    • Actually its opposite. Guerro jr leads ohtani in all statics. So if guerrero doesnt get its because off racism. Cant remember when asians were slaves in america!

    • I'd be happy with it because Guerrero Jr has had a better season than Ohtani

  • Spain's lack of knowledge/understanding of the game of baseball is staggering.

  • I'm Australian and never watched baseball before. This year I'm watching because of Shohei Ohtani.

    • @CarolCityCane305 You shouldn't worry about problems. Worrying accomplishes only slightly more than sending thoughts and prayers.

    • @Princess Daisy Australia has a lot of problems worry about that instead

    • @Princess Daisy problem with a guy like southsider is he does not get that Shohei is playing both ways he is doing the job of two people but he expects him to be leading while doing both I have no doubt if Shohei were to choose to do 1 or the other, to specialize? his numbers would be way better... but then would you or I be watching? you for the first time me since the 1990s there is a Canadian Decathlete whose Decathlon Long Jump would have got him 3rd in the mens individual long jump at the Olympics.... I swear this guy would say but its only 3rd place his Decathlon 110 meter hurdles time would have got him into at least the semi finals this guy would probably argue how he did not make the finals LOL

    • @David right But he's not hitting or pitching at an elite level, so that argument is irrelevant

    • @Princess Daisy Yeah and Guerrero Jr is the most valuable player in the league if you look at the numbers. If you're the MVP, you should be leading in at least one major category, whether it's pitching or hitting. You know how many Ohtani leads in? Zero. He is according to WAR, the 14th most valuable position player and 47th (lol) most valuable pitcher. That's not MVP level performance. He's winning MVP based on a gimmick, not on merit

  • i n t e l l e c t w e b s you are awesome you made my day

  • If he had 55 or more home runs, I can see it. But just a homer or two better, you have to give it to the pitcher.

    • @George Rand i know you dont care you low life racist. You will always be beneath the strong. Thats why we own every sport we are in , basketball, baseball, football. Does not matter. Ufc, boxing. And we got the big one! Little fry. Lol

    • @Snapbacks LLc Except he doesn't own him in every category in pitching. MAtter of fact, he doesn't pitch. Stop making it about race and go cry about slavery or jim crowe to someone who gives a sh

    • @Snapbacks LLc Let's look at the wins. Did the additional hits and rbis beat out the games Ohtani won with his arm?

    • Not just homers guerrero owns him every category. Hits, rbis, batting avg, ops, everything. Guerrero is the mvp. They give it to ohtani must be the color of his skin.

    • the season is not over bro.... let the haters hate...... give othani a babe ruth award and closed deal of shut up

  • People are only voting Shohei because they like him. Stupid comment. He deserved it.

  • There are 9 players on the field and 9 people who bat. Vlad is not winning the games by himself the same as Shohei is not losing the games. Shohei is probably the main reason the angels have as many wins as they do because of the offensive/defensive aspects. Shohei Ohtani is the only man in baseball who can win a game by himself by pitching shutouts and bombing homers. Think about that.

    • @southsider 35 He never won games by himself. My statement is he could. And no he has not been costing them games. The team is costing them games.

    • He hasn't been winning games by himself lately. He's actually been costing them games

    • what a BS reason.... Jays are going to the play offs ANgels NOT LOL

  • shohei ohtani 😭

  • Yeah but Vladdy is also second in batting average, 1st in hits, first in runs, first in home runs, 3rd in runs batted in, 3rd in on base percentage, second in slugging percentage, second in OPS, first in War. You can’t argue that while Ohtani isn’t a top hitter at base or a pitcher anymore, while Vladdy has been consistently all season.

  • HE JUST HIT HOME RUNS...UNLIKE SHOHEI WHO DOES IT ALL...HOMERUN...PITCHES....STEALS BASES........SHOHEI IS THE MVP

    • Vladdy's team is also in the playoff hunt, where Shohei's team stinks!

    • @Suspicious Tree Squirrel he also leads the league in every hitting stat. Smh

    • Valddy has a .318 batting average and will get to 100 rbis. dumb comment

  • Becky with the good hair still lives

  • Vlad is having an amazing season. Any non shohei year he would be MVP but unfortunately for him, Shohei is historic

    • The fact that you guys are comparing a pitcher hitting stats to a hitter should be enough for Shohei to win. When does that ever happen? NEVER. Its over, Vlad having one of the greatest seasons of all time but Shohei is having the ONLY seasons of all time. The fact that there is even talk about Baseball is enough proof that Shohei had change Baseball forever. No one cares about Baseball in recent memory until this seasons, including me.

    • @Jimm9634 sorry havnt seen ohtani jerseys anywhere here in Florida but I do see a lot of tatis JR and vlad jerseys everywhere

    • Vlad jr He's going for a triple Crown But not just that He's going for a record hold for more than 60 years, Youngest home run league leaders in MLB history

    • @southsider 35 Many new people who was not a fan of the game became interested in the sport of baseball because of Ohtani, me included. I'm from Toronto, so I would be happy if Gurrerro wins MVP as well, but I just think Shohei's unprecedented season should make him MVP.

    • @Jimm9634 The numbers matter more than the narrative. Also, the All Star Game has lower ratings this year than in 2019. What's this new viewership we're talking about?

  • El mio asiendo lo que tiene que ase palante mio

  • Just like his dad, breaking into the league at a young age. As a Mets fan, I remember Vladimir Guerrero pretty well. Little Vladdy is even better!

  • Vlad is triple crown entire league not just AL not even close

  • I'm 63. I had never been to an MLB game, but this summer I drove almost 3 hours to Cleveland to see Shohei Ohtani play.

    • Lol, ok bud

    • Great for you little Stevie.

    • Prove it

    • @Carlos Brazao I do. thanks for asking.

    • Same I haven’t been interested in any sport until shohie came out of nowhere. This guy is true must watch. Guess what he’s not white or black and I don’t care. Shohie is bringing baseball back to its root. Fun.

  • He has batted 88 times more than Ohtani (19.55%) but only has 1 more home run.

    • @David right but he’s trying to become a 2 way star you dummy, like I said Vladdy deserves the MVP period idc what you or any other dummy come up with about this conversation

    • @David right I’m a Jays fan but at peace with Ohtani winning MVP. Keep in mind as hard as you are on Vlad, you need to realize he’s only 22. Not too many past triple crown winners were doing it at that age. You should keep this in mind as you downplay his stars. He’s a special player in his own right.

    • @Zig Field how do people like you not get Ohtani is playing both ways? its like you cant fathom he is dong both things at once... Vladi is not doing that great compared to other triple crown winners most were north of 350 heck there was a Bluejay named Olerud in 93 who flirted with 400 (slowed down ended with 363) who put up comparable numbers as Vladi plus Ohtani has an excuse he is playing both ways whats Vladi's excuse for batting 317 How many hits does Vladi have 173? top 500 players in history starts at 200 hits in a season you like stats 22 thousand players in MLB history Ohtani is the first to hit 40 home runs and pitch 20 games in fact he is the first first to hit 30 home runs and pitch 15 games

    • @Smart Towel RG-400 LOL jays home ers what does strikeouts have to do with it? the guy is arguing how many more at bats Vladi has the number is actually 63 so its 63 more at bats for Vladi over Ohtani where Vladi has 1 more home run right now unless you are arguing Ohtani with 44 home runs in 278 at bats is going to strikeout all 63 times if he got those additional at bats too funny

    • @Zig Field showtime has 72 more strike outs with 88 less at bats ...that proves that he's more worried about hitting a homer then getting a hit /walk

  • I still think Ohtani deserves the mvp

    • He will probably get it but that will be one of the least most unimpressive things he’s accomplished this season

    • @Scooby Baseball yea but not when they are like the 20th best pitcher in the league that year

    • @Carlos Brazaothere have been pitchers who’ve won mvp like Clayton Kershaw

    • base on pitching.?? that a cy young award or not

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  • Tim Cowlishaw was hilarious “with all that, I’m still torn.” But Vlad is indeed an MVP caliber player, Ohtani is just doing something historically unmatched. Toss up.

  • Vlad is passing him. Now he has more HRs, more RBI, better average, and is playing better down the stretch. He's closing the season like a beast Ohtani is closing it like a lamb Vlad has a good chance of getting the Triple Crown

    • So a guy that is better than Babe Ruth does not deserve the MVP? Guess Babe Ruth wasn’t very good.

    • OHTANI > VLAD

    • @Woke AF if u put vlad on the angels he will make the team worse

    • @Adam V Whatever helps you sleep at night

    • Okay now do Vlads pitching stats 😂 I understand and completely agree that Vlad is better offensively, but shohei is also one of the top pitchers in the league and gives you value running the bases as well even though that’s not as important it’s still an added element

  • Is he pitching??? Then no.

    • @Marcus Davy but he isn’t

    • @Logical not saying to remove it it’s the fact he’s pitching is the reason he will win when they play different roles on defence

    • @Marcus Davy "if you remove the value he provides through pitching" is a stupid argument lol

    • This is why it’s a terrible way to evaluate mvp. If he was a positional player outside pitcher, anywhere on the field vlad would be mvp by a long shot.

  • this is so stupid. MVP is an individual award. to give significant weight to the teams record who 30+ people on the roster/staff are responsible for is ridiculous.

  • Catching up? Otani plays a position in the field every 5 or so games. Vladdy plays in the field every game. Just because he plays a different type of game, he shouldn’t have an advantage for that

    • pitching is much harder than 1st base lmao

    • If we are going with a "most valuable player" that would be the player who adds the most to his team's chances to win and contributes the most to the goals of baseball. Some possitions naturally have lower impact so it's harder for players in those possitions to be the MVP. This is why MVP is a bad concept but it also means that a player who can pitch very well is more likely to win it than a player who fields well

  • Sarah spitting fire.

  • Short answer? No. Long answer? No. Real answer? No. No? No.

  • No, I don't think so.

  • Sure seems like it

  • No for short Noooooo for long answer

  • did he start pitching?????